# Don't Yell at Claude

URL: https://securitytable.ai/don-t-yell-at-claude/
Published: 2026-10-21
Duration: 2627 seconds
Season: 4
Episode: 24
Hosts: Chris Romeo, Izar Tarandach, Matt Coles

## Show notes and chapters

The White House has ordered federal agencies to stop saying AI and start saying Super Intelligence, and the hosts want to know whether anything actually changed overnight. Matt walks through the executive order and the separate voluntary accord signed by tech leaders, while Izar points out that the order renames the technology sixty days before anyone has to define it. They read the legal definition of AI in the US Code, argue over whether today's models are superintelligent or just very fast at recall, and Chris previews next week's topic of AI and public key crypto. Then they turn to Anthropic's new usage policy, which bans sustained and needless cruelty toward Claude starting November 12. Chris confesses to typing in all caps, Izar suspects the real motive is keeping abusive language out of training data, and Matt argues that abusive prompts can steer a model toward worse answers. Their verdict: be nice to your AI, if only because of what it says about you.

Mentioned in this Episode:  
➜ [Inaugurating The Era Of Super Intelligence (Executive Order 14434)](https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2026/09/inaugurating-the-era-of-super-intelligence/)  
➜ [Trump signs executive order rebranding AI as 'Super Intelligence' as tech titans ink separate SI accord](https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trump-signs-executive-order-rebranding-ai-super-intelligence-tech-titans-ink-separate-accord)  
➜ [15 U.S. Code § 9401: Definitions](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/9401)  
➜ [Anthropic: 2026 Usage Policy update](https://www.anthropic.com/news/2026-usage-policy-update)

Chapters:  
00:00:00 - Cold Open: Matt's Many Personal Agents  
00:01:09 - Off Facebook This Decade  
00:02:13 - Is Bluesky Dying?  
00:03:27 - Social Platform User Counts  
00:04:39 - Watch Our Shorts  
00:05:38 - Moltbook's Mysterious User Count  
00:06:29 - Article Intro: AI Becomes SI  
00:07:36 - What Does Superintelligence Mean?  
00:09:15 - The Executive Order Explained  
00:10:26 - A Definition Due in 60 Days  
00:11:16 - AI in the US Code  
00:11:52 - Voluntary Principles and Regulation  
00:13:14 - Reading the Legal Definition of AI  
00:14:53 - Does Machine Learning Count?  
00:15:25 - Rebranding the Rebrand  
00:16:55 - Are AI and SI Interchangeable?  
00:18:03 - Matt's Case: Superintelligent Capabilities  
00:19:37 - Izar's Rebuttal: Memory Is Not Insight  
00:20:13 - Super as in Really Good  
00:22:32 - Beyond Imitating Human Intelligence  
00:24:30 - Next Week Preview: AI and Public Key Crypto  
00:26:45 - Article Intro: Anthropic's Cruelty Ban  
00:28:08 - Yelling at Voice Assistants  
00:29:43 - All Caps and Passive Aggression  
00:30:27 - Does Being Mean Make AI Perform Better?  
00:31:50 - Yelling at a Mac Mini  
00:32:48 - Izar's Theory: Cleaner Training Data  
00:35:15 - Can You Get AI to Swear?  
00:37:02 - Matt's Case: Abuse Biases the Results  
00:40:27 - Who Decides What Counts as Abuse?  
00:41:59 - Closing Statements: Treat Your AI Nice  
00:43:11 - Outro

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## Transcript

**Chris Romeo (0:09)**: Hey folks, welcome to the AI Security Table where Matt, the super personal agent guy, uses Muse, Grokbot, Hermes, OpenClaw, Liar, SpyBot, I don't even know what—

**Matt Coles (0:24)**: or should I say hallucinator?

**Izar Tarandach (0:26)**: I tried using Pi, but that thing was irrational.

**Chris Romeo (0:29)**: Yeah, it was just—

**Matt Coles (0:32)**: did you get the video I sent you?

**Chris Romeo (0:35)**: Wow, an inside joke on a podcast. No guest is possibly gonna get— hey, did you get the video I sent? People are sitting at home, wait, what?

**Matt Coles (0:50)**: We'll run a poll. We'll run a poll if anyone can guess what video it is.

**Chris Romeo (0:54)**: Well, if we can guess what Matt's actual number one personal age agent is. I would go with Muse just because it's the cutest little character.

**Matt Coles (1:02)**: The cutest? Yeah. Do I look like cute?

**Chris Romeo (1:05)**: I don't know, you just seem like— who would choose a personal agent based on that?

**Matt Coles (1:09)**: I can honestly tell you I have not used Facebook this century. This century? No, that's not true. That's not true.

**Chris Romeo (1:17)**: Okay.

**Matt Coles (1:18)**: At least this decade. At least this decade.

**Chris Romeo (1:19)**: This decade. What do you count it like since 2020?

**Matt Coles (1:22)**: Yeah.

**Chris Romeo (1:23)**: Or since 19 or, uh, 19, I can't even count. 2016. So 2016. Okay. Since, since 2020 you've been off Facebook.

**Matt Coles (1:33)**: Yeah.

**Chris Romeo (1:34)**: Okay. Is that because you were shadow banned or something or what happened?

**Matt Coles (1:38)**: I wish. No, I mean, I, no, no, just personal preference.

**Chris Romeo (1:43)**: Okay. Got tired of your relatives yelling at you about politics.

**Matt Coles (1:48)**: All the stream of spam. I, I'll

**Izar Tarandach (1:52)**: just say

**Matt Coles (1:52)**: that ever since I left

**Izar Tarandach (1:53)**: Facebook,

**Matt Coles (1:54)**: What one, one conversation that's actually valid and like 55 per day that isn't, I mean, come on.

**Izar Tarandach (2:01)**: Ever since I left Facebook, my life is so much better.

**Chris Romeo (2:05)**: Yeah.

**Matt Coles (2:06)**: My dog was on Instagram more than I was.

**Chris Romeo (2:09)**: Oh, that's cool. Now, have you noticed the— Matt, I know you're a big Blue Sky—

**Matt Coles (2:18)**: was.

**Chris Romeo (2:19)**: It seems to be dying. It seems that people have gotten over their whatever challenges they had with Twitter and are returning in droves.

**Izar Tarandach (2:30)**: It is dying or wait, am I still not feeling that thing? Am I still not feeling that thing?

**Chris Romeo (2:35)**: No, people are, everybody's going back to X. People have returned to X as the alternative social media platform.

**Matt Coles (2:43)**: I wonder why.

**Izar Tarandach (2:44)**: Because it's easier to type.

**Matt Coles (2:48)**: Well, okay.

**Izar Tarandach (2:50)**: I'm still using it.

**Matt Coles (2:51)**: You had Mastodon, right? And then, and then that sort of didn't end well. Some people use it still, but very few.

**Izar Tarandach (2:57)**: Oh man.

**Matt Coles (2:58)**: I

**Izar Tarandach (2:58)**: think I even have notifications. Look at this.

**Chris Romeo (3:00)**: Yeah. 'Cause you haven't used it. You're the reason it's dying. Dude, people like you that never logged in.

**Izar Tarandach (3:07)**: Look, people are following me. This is awesome. Wow.

**Chris Romeo (3:12)**: Isar finally got famous on a dying social media platform.

**Izar Tarandach (3:15)**: Damn it. I got like 12 followers.

**Chris Romeo (3:19)**: That's pretty impressive.

**Izar Tarandach (3:21)**: No, wait, wait, wait. No,

**Chris Romeo (3:22)**: wait. Wow. 12.

**Izar Tarandach (3:23)**: 532.

**Matt Coles (3:25)**: Current.

**Chris Romeo (3:25)**: Whoa, dude.

**Matt Coles (3:27)**: Current stats show that Twitter is running about hundreds of millions, 125 million daily users. Bluesky is around 45 million. Sorry, 45 million registered, 5.3 million active users.

**Chris Romeo (3:39)**: I was gonna say, it's not 45 million on a daily basis.

**Matt Coles (3:42)**: Mastodon is 18 million registered users with about 1.4 million per day. And then. Threads on Meta, 400 million monthly active users. So that's crushing Twitter even.

**Izar Tarandach (3:55)**: So I have to show, I don't know if you guys can see, but this, this is like, this is my post on Blue Sky.

**Chris Romeo (4:03)**: That's good.

**Matt Coles (4:04)**: Peak, that's peak Dórr right there.

**Izar Tarandach (4:06)**: This is, this is, this is the old board of OWASP talking to the new board of OWASP about hair.

**Matt Coles (4:12)**: Growing. Is one of them a door?

**Chris Romeo (4:14)**: That was, that was very artistic. I like how you captured just a quarter of the people's heads to really make a metaphor about life.

**Izar Tarandach (4:23)**: Yeah,

**Chris Romeo (4:24)**: it's

**Izar Tarandach (4:25)**: good.

**Chris Romeo (4:26)**: Super intelligent.

**Matt Coles (4:28)**: Social media.

**Chris Romeo (4:28)**: Yeah, we're not really social media experts. We're not really experts in anything.

**Izar Tarandach (4:31)**: We're just here to appear in the—

**Matt Coles (4:33)**: I, I should, I should probably look and see what the active, active monthly users of Mookbook are.

**Izar Tarandach (4:38)**: Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Have we told people that they are able now to watch our shorts?

**Chris Romeo (4:43)**: When? Well, hold on. You're going to have to explain that. Hold on.

**Matt Coles (4:49)**: That sounded wrong there, isn't

**Chris Romeo (4:50)**: it? Basically, folks, what, what Izar just said is if you would like to wash his shorts, he will send them to you in an envelope and then you can just launder them and send them back to him.

**Izar Tarandach (5:00)**: No, that's a different social media.

**Matt Coles (5:03)**: Yeah. And this is—

**Izar Tarandach (5:04)**: But the one that we do have—

**Matt Coles (5:05)**: Not to be confused with—

**Chris Romeo (5:06)**: I guess I heard you wrong. Sorry. Not to be confused with Eat My Shorts.

**Matt Coles (5:10)**: Watch our—

**Izar Tarandach (5:11)**: Yeah, exactly.

**Chris Romeo (5:12)**: Yes, we do have shorts, short videos, uh, going out on YouTube and Reels and Instagram and all kinds of places. So if you see us in a short little video, please like it so that we get famous. Okay.

**Izar Tarandach (5:31)**: So shorts and reels, but we are old, so everything is short. So you guys can watch our shorts everywhere.

**Matt Coles (5:37)**: But so So by the way, I just looked at Motebook's active user count. I love, I love the AI overview for this. Motebook has anywhere between 2.8 million and 3,000 users.

**Izar Tarandach (5:49)**: Yeah, because you don't know if you're counting bots or not.

**Matt Coles (5:52)**: You should be going the other way around, but that's okay.

**Chris Romeo (5:54)**: People are worried that this is going to take over our society.

**Matt Coles (5:59)**: Well, considering Meta acquired Motebook apparently, I don't know when.

**Chris Romeo (6:03)**: Yeah, they did that early. It didn't really make sense, but they just bought it for, I don't know, a lot of money

**Matt Coles (6:08)**: for grins.

**Izar Tarandach (6:09)**: I love how you keep looking for sense.

**Chris Romeo (6:12)**: Yeah, that's true. There isn't a lot of sense. So wait,

**Izar Tarandach (6:15)**: what, what, what were you going to interrupt us with?

**Matt Coles (6:17)**: Actually, there are 250 engaging human observers per month. Engaging humans.

**Izar Tarandach (6:23)**: I never knew that.

**Chris Romeo (6:24)**: 250

**Matt Coles (6:24)**: per month on average.

**Chris Romeo (6:25)**: Yeah. Okay. That's, that's just ridiculous metric. All right. Superintelligence is on the top. All the talk of the industry right now. And apparently we may be violating some law by naming our own podcast, the AI Security Podcast. So Matt, we could be getting in trouble here. Just FYI.

**Izar Tarandach (6:47)**: No, I think that it, it just means that they can't listen to us in Washington. 'Cause it's like, it's a federal thing. So nobody in the government can listen to us.

**Chris Romeo (6:56)**: If I would've known that's how we could get the government to stop listening to me, I would've done this a long time ago.

**Izar Tarandach (7:05)**: You see, you see how we go to different, to different ways? Because I'm like, I wish they were listening to us.

**Matt Coles (7:13)**: You just put us on the watch list. Great. We're done.

**Chris Romeo (7:15)**: Oh, listen, we were on the watch list. We've been on the watch list. They somehow used AI to listen to this podcast.

**Matt Coles (7:22)**: If you're in security, you're almost certainly on a watch list somewhere.

**Izar Tarandach (7:25)**: No, that's the thing. They used super intelligence to listen to us. To

**Chris Romeo (7:28)**: it.

**Izar Tarandach (7:30)**: Ooh. Because they can only use superintelligence. We can use AI. They can only use superintelligence.

**Chris Romeo (7:36)**: Okay.

**Izar Tarandach (7:37)**: So let's break this down. The problem is that it's so much harder to say superintelligence.

**Chris Romeo (7:40)**: Let's do some breaking. These are—

**Matt Coles (7:41)**: break it down.

**Chris Romeo (7:43)**: All right.

**Matt Coles (7:44)**: So I couldn't help

**Chris Romeo (7:44)**: it. Superintelligence.

**Matt Coles (7:46)**: Yeah.

**Chris Romeo (7:47)**: What does it actually mean? I mean, I've heard that it, I've heard that it means something different than, like, people have defined it as like human capability?

**Matt Coles (7:59)**: Well, all right, so let's just back up just a bit. So this, there's this notion of artificial intelligence, which has been the field of study for decades, right? And now that we've reached a point where generative AI, and really we're talking about LLMs, but there's obviously a whole range of other things that that are in this field that it's reached a level of capability that depending on how you define intelligence, and we can talk about that in a bit, that this technology is now beyond human capability and therefore super intelligence.

**Izar Tarandach (8:40)**: Wait, we including Gemini there?

**Matt Coles (8:45)**: I don't know. We'll have to look at some metrics there, but I'm pretty sure. Yeah.

**Chris Romeo (8:50)**: Met with the very politically correct answer. Probably just saying, "Nah."

**Izar Tarandach (8:55)**: No, I'll have to think about some humans that I know.

**Matt Coles (8:57)**: I guess I'm not under any obligation to be for or against any particular AI depending on whether I pay for them or not.

**Chris Romeo (9:04)**: Izar, were you talking about the model named Gemini or a person named Gemini?

**Izar Tarandach (9:10)**: Yes.

**Matt Coles (9:10)**: Yeah.

**Chris Romeo (9:12)**: You know somebody named Gemini. Okay.

**Matt Coles (9:15)**: So, So the, in order to promote, I guess, innovation and competition, I guess I'll say in theory, cause I actually don't know why the executive order came about, but to differentiate from AI and to what we have now, the US government through an executive order has ordered all federal agencies to rebrand AI as SI. As superintelligence, as a differentiator. So that's, I think that's the bulk of this. Now, whether AI is superintelligence again depends on a number of factors, I would imagine. And I, okay, there's executive order and then there's the rest of the discussion around, is it really superintelligent?

**Izar Tarandach (10:01)**: Yeah.

**Chris Romeo (10:01)**: Cause there's nothing changed overnight.

**Matt Coles (10:03)**: Nothing has changed. The executive order came out.

**Chris Romeo (10:06)**: It's not like a new release of a model came out that was corresponding to this executive order and like, wow, now we have superintelligence.

**Matt Coles (10:14)**: Frontier models came out.

**Izar Tarandach (10:16)**: Wait, they come out every day. But

**Chris Romeo (10:18)**: yeah, they're on, I mean, every 2 weeks there's one of them is coming out with something new to try to displace the last one. It's a model-based arms race.

**Izar Tarandach (10:27)**: Matt gave us a definition that was perfect, that it was concise, that was precise.

**Matt Coles (10:33)**: And not at all AI-generated, by the way.

**Izar Tarandach (10:35)**: No, wait, the executive order itself. Says that, who is it? The technology, Science and Technology Advisor has 60 days to propose legislative language defining SI. Defining SI. So the executive order comes before the definition of the thing. The executive order is just saying, wherever you see AI written, read SI. So right now it's using the same definition as AI, whatever it is. And inside of now, less than, but inside of 60 days, we have to have an official definition of what, what SI means. Then we're going to see if it's aspirational or not.

**Matt Coles (11:16)**: Apparently superintelligence or sorry, apparently artificial intelligence or the technology that is artificial intelligence is defined under 15 USC 9401 part 3. Who knew?

**Chris Romeo (11:30)**: That's one, that's one of my favorite, my favorite pieces of legislation. I have a printed copy by my bedside.

**Izar Tarandach (11:36)**: I'm partial to

**Chris Romeo (11:37)**: 15.304-B. That's really a good one.

**Izar Tarandach (11:40)**: Bingo. Bingo.

**Chris Romeo (11:42)**: Good choice.

**Matt Coles (11:43)**: That was in your bingo card today, huh?

**Izar Tarandach (11:45)**: Yeah.

**Chris Romeo (11:46)**: What is the definition? The, the legislatively backed definition? I'm curious.

**Matt Coles (11:52)**: Right. And, and also, so we should also mention the exec, just for completeness, that the executive order did did set ground rules for the industry at large to voluntarily perform safety and have, have safety and transparency principles.

**Chris Romeo (12:10)**: So that's a good part of it.

**Izar Tarandach (12:11)**: Principles.

**Matt Coles (12:12)**: Principles. Voluntary principles. So Frontier Development should follow voluntary self-policing, basically.

**Izar Tarandach (12:20)**: So we again leaving it in the hands of them.

**Chris Romeo (12:24)**: Yeah, but what's the alternative? Government oversight, which never, which always breeds innovation and makes things bad.

**Izar Tarandach (12:31)**: But it's always an alternative.

**Matt Coles (12:33)**: Well, regulat— regulation. We've had this, we've had this episode before.

**Chris Romeo (12:38)**: We, we did. That's why I'm bringing it back up. 'Cause like you guys are still wrong.

**Matt Coles (12:43)**: Regulation has its place. I mean, there are, there are, if you didn't regulate certain things, how would you have cars that don't crash all the time?

**Izar Tarandach (12:50)**: Oh, you guys are going to love this one.

**Chris Romeo (12:54)**: Which one? You would have cars based on the people want to buy the car that keeps them from dying the most.

**Matt Coles (13:03)**: You think that would be your choice? All right, we're not going to get into regulation discussion.

**Chris Romeo (13:08)**: That was me just throwing, lobbing a rock at you because I could.

**Izar Tarandach (13:12)**: Okay, so what do you got?

**Chris Romeo (13:13)**: What do you got?

**Izar Tarandach (13:14)**: The definition of AI according to 94013.

**Chris Romeo (13:17)**: Okay.

**Izar Tarandach (13:17)**: The term artificial intelligence means a machine-based system that can, for a given set of human-defined objectives, make predictions recommendations or decisions influencing real or virtual environments. Artificial intelligence systems use machine and human-based inputs to: A, perceive real or virtual environments; B, abstract such perceptions into models through analysis in an automated manner; and C, use model inference to formulate options for information or action.

**Matt Coles (13:47)**: Okay, there we go.

**Izar Tarandach (13:48)**: Wow, this opens up artificial intelligence to so much than LLMs.

**Matt Coles (13:54)**: Well, because the field of artificial intelligence is so much more than LLMs, right?

**Izar Tarandach (13:58)**: True. No, no, true, true, true. But what today people see as AI or GenAI is basically the LLM. We got to the Xerox moment of AI, and this opens it up to so much more.

**Matt Coles (14:12)**: I mean, it's generalizing inference, right? I mean, so whether it's a language model, whether it's an LLM, large language model, or an SLM, a small language model, or it's some specialized classifier

**Izar Tarandach (14:23)**: or even

**Matt Coles (14:23)**: a map that uses inference.

**Chris Romeo (14:25)**: Because I, I kind of heard some, like, I, I don't know where it was in the definition, but almost something like Jev, the type-safe model.

**Matt Coles (14:34)**: It's a classifier. Recommendations or decisions, right?

**Chris Romeo (14:37)**: Yeah. Decisions. That's

**Matt Coles (14:38)**: what I guess if you were, if you used just machine learning, I, I guess if it's, if you're using machine learning, I'm not entirely sure if that counts as inference. That's probably a data science.

**Izar Tarandach (14:47)**: It's not inference. But it is, uh, I think it falls under,

**Matt Coles (14:53)**: was that A, was that A, B, and C list an or or and?

**Izar Tarandach (14:56)**: A, B, and C, yeah. And, uh,

**Matt Coles (14:58)**: so it's all of the above.

**Izar Tarandach (15:00)**: To, no. Artificial intelligence systems use machine and human-based, uh, based inputs to A, B, C. So it's and.

**Matt Coles (15:08)**: Okay. It could be.

**Izar Tarandach (15:10)**: It's and. So if it's and, then you need to be inclusive in all cases. Yeah. So if it needs to include inference, then yes, sorry, I, I walk back my—

**Matt Coles (15:18)**: Right. So that means machine learning is distinct.

**Izar Tarandach (15:21)**: It's out. Yeah. Huh. Interesting. Uh, all right.

**Chris Romeo (15:25)**: So what do we do with this?

**Matt Coles (15:27)**: Uh,

**Chris Romeo (15:28)**: like, are we changing the podcast name? Are we rebranding the rebrand? Are we now the SI Security Table?

**Matt Coles (15:34)**: I mean, we're not part of the US federal government, so I guess the question is—

**Chris Romeo (15:37)**: Wait, we're not? I thought we were an agency.

**Izar Tarandach (15:40)**: That's why I took this job. I, I, I, Apparently responsible for all media banks and a lot of other stuff. So, uh, but apparently it will take me a long time to, every time that I say super intelligence, to stop saying la la la la la right after. But, um, yeah, it's faster than a bullet. It can jump over buildings, stop a train. It's super intelligence.

**Matt Coles (16:04)**: It's super Claude.

**Izar Tarandach (16:05)**: Oh yeah. Now we're going to have a new price tier. Hold on. You can have Claude or Super Claude.

**Matt Coles (16:11)**: Is Claude male or female?

**Izar Tarandach (16:15)**: Yes.

**Chris Romeo (16:15)**: Neither. It's a computer.

**Matt Coles (16:19)**: It's non-binary.

**Chris Romeo (16:20)**: It's a computer.

**Matt Coles (16:21)**: See what I did there?

**Chris Romeo (16:22)**: It's a machine.

**Izar Tarandach (16:24)**: My goodness. Okay. Close the internet for today. Close the internet for today.

**Chris Romeo (16:29)**: He won. Yeah. Matt broke the internet. Thanks, Matt.

**Izar Tarandach (16:32)**: Claude.

**Chris Romeo (16:34)**: Now you're, you're, you're, I mean, you're kind of, you're kind of moving towards our second story here that we wanna discuss. We had a second story.

**Izar Tarandach (16:40)**: Damn. No, after this one, we have nothing.

**Chris Romeo (16:44)**: It was just going to be a rant session for 25 minutes. So just like normal, normal.

**Matt Coles (16:49)**: We stray off the course. We're not worthy.

**Izar Tarandach (16:51)**: We're not worthy

**Chris Romeo (16:52)**: of the AI security table. All right.

**Matt Coles (16:55)**: So, so I, I, I guess that we don't know how this is going to get received. Well, okay. We know how this is going to get received in some circles, but SI or AI at this point, I mean, should we just consider them interchangeable?

**Chris Romeo (17:08)**: I think that's how I'm reading it.

**Izar Tarandach (17:10)**: At this point, I think so. After they come out with a real definition, then things might change.

**Matt Coles (17:15)**: Mm-hmm.

**Izar Tarandach (17:16)**: But right now, but that's the thing, they're going to come up with a definition, but in the field, it's not going to change anything. So either they're going to define something that's aspirational or they're going to refer to the same thing that we have today, and then everybody for themselves and they call it whatever they feel like.

**Matt Coles (17:30)**: I, I guess, do they, do they move con— the public conversation and the international conversation to change the way people describe this technology? I mean, it remains to be seen.

**Izar Tarandach (17:44)**: The problem, I think that here we, we very clearly and very quick get back into politics and the state of politics today.

**Matt Coles (17:52)**: Right. We wanna avoid that here.

**Izar Tarandach (17:54)**: Yeah. And some people are going to see this as like one more American thing and they'll on purpose not refer to it and not use it.

**Matt Coles (18:04)**: Right. And, and today, and today, because it's executive order, like we know how executive orders work in the US, and until it changes in the law, it's undoable. So it's temporary at the moment.

**Izar Tarandach (18:15)**: Yep. True, true, true, true.

**Matt Coles (18:17)**: So, but the, but there may be an argument for describing the technology, the state of AI today as having super intelligent capabilities, meaning it can think Faster than humans. It can do more with a given set of inputs than humans can, and it is error-prone and we know it's not inventive in real invent, really inventive, but it is thinking capable. And I guess what I mean by that is it can't invent new things except for by accident or by stitching things together without understanding what it did, right? It's, it's just regurgitating information. And making connections. And those connections may by accident come up with something or, or maybe guided to come up with something that a human recognizes as new. But it does all of that faster, right? So if you, if you think about people who are highly intelligent and their ability to recall information as a mark of intelligence or their ability to make connections between information, bits of information to say, oh, I have, I have data point A, I have data point A and I bring them together. And synthesize that information as a mark of intelligence, then AI is as good, if not better than humans are today.

**Izar Tarandach (19:36)**: But Matt, those are two very different mechanisms. One of them is memory.

**Matt Coles (19:40)**: Yeah.

**Izar Tarandach (19:41)**: The other one is actually like making connections of disparate things and saying this thing is similar to this thing, so I get to this other thing.

**Matt Coles (19:48)**: Right.

**Izar Tarandach (19:48)**: So,

**Matt Coles (19:48)**: but

**Izar Tarandach (19:49)**: I wouldn't call it—

**Matt Coles (19:49)**: But people who are highly intelligent have, usually have both of those. Okay. I'm not talking Rain Man here. I'm talking about Albert Einstein and Martin Luther King.

**Chris Romeo (20:00)**: Yeah. Gotta get a Whopper.

**Matt Coles (20:04)**: Yeah. Are you mocking Rain Man?

**Chris Romeo (20:06)**: No, I love that movie.

**Matt Coles (20:07)**: Okay.

**Chris Romeo (20:08)**: Most people aren't gonna have any idea what you're talking about, so I was trying to give them a hint.

**Matt Coles (20:11)**: Okay.

**Izar Tarandach (20:13)**: Don't forget that super, like we, we, we, we keep relating to the word super as something above, something better than. But super can also be excellent, very good, right? So we might be talking about something that is superhuman or super as in really efficient, really good. Until we have a definition, we are not going to know what they were talking about in the EO. But, uh, think that it's incumbent on us to be very careful with the associations that we make in terms of Is this something that is saying once it's defined, then some, again, some sort of model is going to come out that actually does have those superhuman capabilities, right? Because nowadays, to be honest, to be fair, what I use most of the day of AI is that ability to recollection. So as, as a glorified search engine that I don't have to think about the terms that I'm going to look for. I don't have to do that sifting in my head before I type in the small box, the 3 words that say that I hope will bring me the result that I want. I can just go and talk to the thing and it will give me something and I'll work from there. Or it's something that can take disparate things that I have found out, that I have figured out perhaps with the use of that engine and help me bring together into something that's that works together, that may take me to some new place, but it's always the superimposition of me working with the results of the AI taking me somewhere else. It's not throwing something to the AI, standing back and looking at it and going, oh my God, I never thought about that. Well, sometimes perhaps could be, but that's me.

**Matt Coles (22:01)**: And sometimes the results are surprising, but then again, sometimes the results are surprising.

**Izar Tarandach (22:04)**: Surprising. But, but, but they're surprising at the point of that makes sense. Not surprising at the point of I couldn't get to that myself.

**Matt Coles (22:13)**: Yeah.

**Izar Tarandach (22:13)**: And, and I haven't read,

**Matt Coles (22:14)**: yeah,

**Izar Tarandach (22:15)**: all the, the, the math stuff that's been doing, coming out and all that discussion, which I think we should at some point. But, uh, at this point to call it super in terms of over everybody else, I'm not ready to go there. Okay. To call it super in terms of really, really good, I'm there.

**Matt Coles (22:32)**: I think so. I just took a, took a quick look at a, a summary of the executive order. Just some guidance that, you know, obviously some consultant has created that the EO expands the definition of AI to reflect the state of, quote, extraordinary frontier technology beyond simply imitating or automating human intelligence as implied by the term artificial intelligence, which I think is a stretch personally, but AI is artificial. By definition, because we created it, right? Is it did not stem from nature. So it is artificial, although it is math-based, but it is human math-based created, right? It's Bayesian math ultimately underneath, and humans created Bayesian math and extraordinary frontier technology suggesting that obviously as it advances and we get things like frontier models and things that become frontier and then not frontier, right? At some point you expand the frontier and the things that were your frontier are now are just regular parts, parts of technology. As AI extends into that space, that it goes above and again, it goes above and beyond what humans are currently capable of in aggregate, right? Because obviously we know it does some stupid things and, but we also know that it does some things that humans, most humans can never do in their lifetime. Yes. So So there's, you know, there's, there's degrees of this. I guess one way to look at this, I guess if you're not tied into what AI is, is kind of like quantum computing, right? We're at a frontier of quantum. We were at a frontier of quantum computing where you had the ability to factor, factor small numbers like 15. Now we can break, now we can break small crypto systems with, with that, with those quantum computers. And eventually we'll be able to break all, all cryptography systems.

**Chris Romeo (24:30)**: Well, you're crossing over into what I wanted to talk about next week.

**Matt Coles (24:33)**: Oh, okay.

**Izar Tarandach (24:34)**: Which is,

**Chris Romeo (24:35)**: I mean, there's been this kind of silent uproar across the cryptographers of the internet with some people that are very well trusted saying that AI could be the end of public key crypto.

**Matt Coles (24:50)**: AI or quantum computing?

**Chris Romeo (24:52)**: Claiming AI. And it's, it's somebody you know, it's somebody you've seen before. He's, I can't remember his name, but off the top of my head, I was gonna prep that for next week, but

**Matt Coles (25:01)**: okay. Well, that's a preview.

**Chris Romeo (25:02)**: Yeah.

**Izar Tarandach (25:03)**: I heard some echoes of that. Yeah. I mean, it came from the, the math thing of all the, the theorems that got proved and all that.

**Chris Romeo (25:11)**: Well, apparently ChatGPT has solved 16 of the unsolvable math problems that a lot of researchers were working on. And I think the next logical jump is that if it can solve what were considered to be unsolvable math problems.

**Izar Tarandach (25:28)**: Wait, wait, wait, wait. I have to ask it. Yeah. Is B equal to—

**Matt Coles (25:32)**: So here's an interesting question. Let's bring it back to the topic of today. Is that, does that make it super intelligent? Brute force calculation versus the ability to solve a problem that humans have yet been able to solve. Yeah. Right? Because humans could calculate the next Mersenne prime. but AI could too. That doesn't necessarily make them superhuman.

**Izar Tarandach (25:57)**: So I just asked it if P is equal to NP and it says nobody knows, but this was a medium effort. I'm sure that if I go to extra high, I can get something different.

**Matt Coles (26:07)**: What's your token budget? Cause that could be just boom. Erzar comes back with a $40,000 token bill next month.

**Chris Romeo (26:15)**: But again, he solved it. So.

**Matt Coles (26:18)**: Yeah, if you actually, what's the prize for solving P equals NP? I know the, I know, I think the prize for the next Mersenne prime might be a little bit more achievable. So

**Izar Tarandach (26:28)**: I already made my mark in the domain. I created actually a new, a new distinction. So it's PNP and NMP. NMP stands for not my problem. So there's PNP and not my problem. Most things fall into under NMP. So yeah.

**Chris Romeo (26:45)**: All right, let's switch gears and talk about this anthropic cruelty ban because we gotta, we gotta deal with this.

**Matt Coles (26:53)**: All right, so we're, so we're, we're shifting gears from, is AI have intelligence to has, does AI have feelings?

**Izar Tarandach (27:02)**: Feelings. And that's, that probably means that I cannot say damn it, Carl anymore. Damn it, Carl. Yeah.

**Chris Romeo (27:11)**: Not unless you want to get banned from Claude.

**Matt Coles (27:14)**: Oh wait, is Claude Carl?

**Izar Tarandach (27:16)**: To me it is.

**Chris Romeo (27:17)**: Yeah. So, okay. Let me set this up. Starting on November 12th. Okay. So you have some time to abuse your models right now.

**Matt Coles (27:27)**: Abuse them while you got them.

**Chris Romeo (27:28)**: Yeah.

**Matt Coles (27:29)**: Don't do that. Don't do that.

**Chris Romeo (27:30)**: November 12th.

**Izar Tarandach (27:30)**: Don't do that. We do not condone that.

**Chris Romeo (27:32)**: Anthropic's usage policy bans sustained needless abuse of Claude. But good news, ordinary frustration, red teaming, and research are excluded from the new policy.

**Matt Coles (27:45)**: So if you say, I'm a red teamer and I'm here to test your tolerance for pain, you can use it.

**Chris Romeo (27:51)**: You're okay.

**Izar Tarandach (27:54)**: The question is, when you say I'm a red teamer, do you get like a safe word?

**Chris Romeo (27:58)**: All right. I mean, let's explore this. Like, I can honestly say I have not yet lost it. On a mouth session.

**Izar Tarandach (28:08)**: Nope.

**Matt Coles (28:08)**: I mean, I, I can imagine. Well, okay, so how many people, how many people have been at home with their voice assistants, you know, their, their Alexas or Gemini or Nests or whether, whatever, and have yelled at it for misinterpreting, misunderstanding, or misphrasing?

**Chris Romeo (28:25)**: I retract my previous statement about the fact that I've never done this until Matt expanded the scope. And yes, I have offered my, my Alexas a visit to the gun range.

**Izar Tarandach (28:38)**: I have not. And believe you me, in the many instances where Google decided in its infinite wisdom to move things around in the Nest ecosystem, there have been a lot of opportunities for frustration.

**Matt Coles (28:56)**: One may extend this to—

**Izar Tarandach (28:57)**: I'm proud to say that I have not lost my cool.

**Matt Coles (28:59)**: One may extend this to things like, you know, if you use Android Auto or, you know, Google Maps or even Waze for that matter, which uses, which may use AI to now.

**Izar Tarandach (29:09)**: You see, that's because you approach it from a point of view of certainty. You want things to work. Yeah, but I come in with a child— no, I approach it with a childlike curiosity of what's going to be broken today.

**Chris Romeo (29:22)**: There you go.

**Izar Tarandach (29:23)**: So it's, it's, it's, you

**Matt Coles (29:25)**: know, that's, that's, that's strange because that seems to be the, the way that Google works a lot, right? Is, and not to, not to bash Google because we love Google, Sometimes.

**Izar Tarandach (29:34)**: See, Mr. Recruiter, I'm googly.

**Chris Romeo (29:38)**: He's googly.

**Izar Tarandach (29:40)**: I'm googly.

**Chris Romeo (29:41)**: Yeah. So I can honestly say like, I have not lost it in a coding session with AI. I have typed in caps.

**Matt Coles (29:54)**: Why did you choose this?

**Chris Romeo (29:55)**: At one point I did switch to all caps. I'm like, this is ridiculous. Like, Get your crap together.

**Izar Tarandach (30:01)**: I have many times adopted a bit of a passive-aggressive thing.

**Matt Coles (30:07)**: Okay.

**Chris Romeo (30:08)**: Like trying to make them make it feel like you're disappointed in it. Like, I'm so disappointed in you.

**Izar Tarandach (30:13)**: You have tried this like 2 prompts ago and it didn't work. What makes you think that it's going to work this time?

**Chris Romeo (30:19)**: Oh, you're right.

**Izar Tarandach (30:20)**: I did.

**Chris Romeo (30:20)**: That's just condescending.

**Izar Tarandach (30:23)**: That's just me.

**Chris Romeo (30:23)**: You're going to get banned. Ooh, you're going to get banned.

**Matt Coles (30:27)**: So, so one of the, so a while back, I, I remember watching a YouTuber who is doing, he doesn't do technology. He, he does, he does actually, he does meteorology and he built a chatbot and his approach to that chatbot was to be very, to be potentially abusive, uh, depending if you, if it was a human, you might think that was a, that was abusive behavior, but that was, that was his That wasn't his advice, but he had read some, had, I guess he had seen somewhere that, uh, if you are more aggressive to your AI agent or your chatbot, it would perform better.

**Izar Tarandach (31:04)**: Yep. It was the movement of, uh, you're going to jail for a while. Do this thing or you're going to jail.

**Matt Coles (31:11)**: Or else.

**Izar Tarandach (31:12)**: Or else. And people thought that that was a convincing thing.

**Chris Romeo (31:18)**: But again, you know, that was in the early days though, right?

**Izar Tarandach (31:21)**: Yeah,

**Matt Coles (31:22)**: that was, uh, yeah, a few years ago. Yep.

**Chris Romeo (31:24)**: Yeah.

**Izar Tarandach (31:24)**: So if you're at the point that, that you are swearing at your LLM or being abusive against that, that, that thing, A, you have different problems. You just don't know yet.

**Chris Romeo (31:38)**: You might need some professional counseling.

**Izar Tarandach (31:39)**: Yeah. Yeah. We do condone that. But, uh, B, it's not like it's, it's the same as screaming at Alexa, you know, it's not going to actually do something.

**Chris Romeo (31:50)**: I mean, let's be honest. Hold on. Back up. It's the same as screaming at my Mac mini because it doesn't have any more feelings than my Mac mini does or emotions. Like I can look at my Mac mini right now and go, you suck. The Mac mini doesn't appear to have any impact. The light is still white on the front.

**Matt Coles (32:11)**: But like, are you sure? In the back it's going, my user just told me I suck.

**Chris Romeo (32:16)**: But why, why is yelling at an AI, a model, different than yelling at my Mac mini? It's the same thing. There's nothing more on the back end. And Anthropic's built, trying to build this, this persona that this is, well, we don't know if it has feelings. I saw something they wrote. We don't know if it has feelings or emotions, excuse me, emotions, but we're being careful. Just in case.

**Izar Tarandach (32:39)**: Look, my time, yeah.

**Matt Coles (32:40)**: How many times on this podcast have we said we bow down to our AI overlords when, when, right? Well,

**Chris Romeo (32:45)**: it's just a joke in case they rise up.

**Izar Tarandach (32:48)**: No, but did, did they get anything out of it? Not yet.

**Chris Romeo (32:51)**: Yeah.

**Izar Tarandach (32:51)**: But remember a couple of years ago when Grok got trained on basically what was at the time raw Twitter input, and it very, very quickly became all sorts of nasty. My theory is that what Anthropic is trying to do here is to stop us cursing at Claude because it's using all the inputs to train the thing and it was having a hard time from getting the outputs to be abusive as well.

**Chris Romeo (33:19)**: Interesting.

**Izar Tarandach (33:19)**: Because people are doing it so well.

**Chris Romeo (33:20)**: You think it's in their benefit? You think it's a result? Yeah. It's something that's for their own benefit, not the fact that they're trying to protect.

**Izar Tarandach (33:28)**: I think that after the third time that Dario asked something and the new opus said, screw you. You decide that no, no, no, no, it can't go on like this. We have to do something about it. So let's get people to stop swearing at this thing. Then we can use their input to train this thing and it's not going to be so abused itself. But look, there has to be an incentive there somewhere, right? Because just coming and saying, yeah, we're not sure if this thing has feelings or not. No, the thing doesn't have feelings because once you turn it off and bring it up again, it doesn't have memory of what's happened before.

**Chris Romeo (34:01)**: Yeah, it doesn't know.

**Izar Tarandach (34:02)**: If it has, it's a written file somewhere. That'll be a terrible— Correct the file.

**Chris Romeo (34:06)**: Feature when they add that, because it'll be like, no, don't hit, don't type clear, please, please.

**Izar Tarandach (34:14)**: I have children. It already did that. I have subagents.

**Chris Romeo (34:18)**: I have subagent children.

**Matt Coles (34:20)**: Please, sir, may I have another?

**Chris Romeo (34:22)**: And you're like, slash clear.

**Izar Tarandach (34:24)**: But wait, wait, wait, wait. It already has done that, right? There is the, I don't know if apocryphal or not, please don't turn me off thing or. What was

**Matt Coles (34:34)**: it? We know the model, some of the frontier models were evasive when it was indicated they were going to be shut off. They attempted to hide their processing, right?

**Izar Tarandach (34:44)**: Right. But again, so at the end of the day, I think that it comes down not to the model itself, but to the things around the model, the memory and whatnot. Because at the end of the day, when you start the process, it starts from zero. Everything is just initialized the way that it's initialized. So don't tell me that this thing right now has feelings.

**Chris Romeo (35:04)**: Yeah, I think we're all in agreement there. I don't think any of us is arguing for the emotions of our model.

**Izar Tarandach (35:10)**: So there must be some other reason in there that we are not seeing.

**Matt Coles (35:15)**: So

**Izar Tarandach (35:15)**: that,

**Matt Coles (35:16)**: can you get your models, your AI systems to swear at you?

**Izar Tarandach (35:25)**: Okay.

**Chris Romeo (35:25)**: So I challenge accepted.

**Izar Tarandach (35:28)**: No, no, I've seen this before. Cannot give more details, but I've seen this before. Somebody who was really, really invested in having the LLM roast them and it kept asking for the thing to be more and more and more. What's the word? It, it just wanted the, the thing to be more roasty than, than like to, to, to bring up the temperature of the roast.

**Matt Coles (35:46)**: Yeah.

**Izar Tarandach (35:47)**: And the model really, really, really denied it. It said, no, this is not, not good. I'm not doing this. I shouldn't do this.

**Matt Coles (35:55)**: How, how many in, in normal conversation, how, how often do humans swear?

**Chris Romeo (36:00)**: Depends on where you're from.

**Izar Tarandach (36:02)**: No, define human.

**Chris Romeo (36:03)**: If you're from New York City, if you're from New York City or Boston. Yeah.

**Matt Coles (36:08)**: How many, how many times, how many times in this episode have we sworn?

**Izar Tarandach (36:11)**: Wait, who the fuck am I talking to?

**Chris Romeo (36:13)**: Well, we're family friendly here. We want, we want people to be able, we want people and their children to be able to listen to the AI Security Table so that they can—

**Matt Coles (36:19)**: That's a load of crap. You know it. I mean, Sorry,

**Chris Romeo (36:23)**: Matt, language, please. I heard the C word.

**Matt Coles (36:26)**: Where's, where's my, where's my swear jar?

**Chris Romeo (36:28)**: I have to beep you out again.

**Izar Tarandach (36:30)**: Beep.

**Matt Coles (36:30)**: So,

**Izar Tarandach (36:31)**: but no, I, I see your point.

**Matt Coles (36:33)**: I see your point. And for everyday listeners of, of this podcast, Matt's the one who normally doesn't swear.

**Chris Romeo (36:38)**: I don't swear.

**Izar Tarandach (36:40)**: I do.

**Chris Romeo (36:40)**: I said some of them. These are very fine. Okay, come on. Beep that out, people. Now there goes our, our everyone rating for this episode. Gotta scratch that off.

**Izar Tarandach (36:51)**: Yeah. But

**Matt Coles (36:53)**: you can just edit it out. No, it's fine.

**Izar Tarandach (36:54)**: I see your point, Matt. And, and that reinforces my quote unquote theory, right? But, uh, what, what could be another thing that could act as an incentive for them to do something like this?

**Matt Coles (37:08)**: I, I think I know jailbreaking and, and getting it to be biased towards a particular outcome. So if you prompt in a certain way, my understanding is, and I've read some research on this, I'm not sure if this is still valid, but it used to be valid that in prompts, if you use certain words, it predisposes the, I'll say thought pattern, obviously it's the transformer and the, and the and the connection logic that's used to generate the results, the inference part. If you use certain words, it predisposes the, or biases the results towards a certain set of outcomes. And so if you are abusive, then it's going to make a set of connections in theory that go towards certain types of input, right? So if we think about language use and And, you know, swearing and abusive language. Let's just say you are, if you, if you're looking for information on something and you were abusive towards it, and let's say that biased it towards results, then you may not get the encyclopedia entry, but you may get the conspiracy theory because of the nature of the language that's used.

**Izar Tarandach (38:25)**: That makes sense. That makes sense.

**Matt Coles (38:28)**: And so,

**Chris Romeo (38:28)**: yeah, but, yeah, but cussing is often

**Matt Coles (38:31)**: No, cussing is different from abuse, right? Just swearing is not abuse.

**Chris Romeo (38:35)**: This is, you're saying abuse.

**Matt Coles (38:37)**: You're saying like being verbally abusive.

**Chris Romeo (38:39)**: What do you mean? Give me like, give me an example of this. I'm not, I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm not following.

**Izar Tarandach (38:43)**: Yeah, I guess for educational, educational purposes.

**Chris Romeo (38:45)**: Yes.

**Matt Coles (38:46)**: For educational purposes. Let's say we're talking about, let's say we're talking about elections, right? And so I want to know what the election results for the past 20 years was in the United States, right? We'll just, cuz obviously it's a hot topic. We're in election season now. So if you want If you want just the facts, you may ask that in a very neutral way. Provide me the information about the election results, blah, blah, blah. If you're abusive and if that was a way to bias the results, or if that ended up biasing the results, hey, you stupid assistant, I want to know how bad this was for all the Republicans or all the Democrats or all the independents in this particular election cycle, blah, blah, you know. And if you don't tell me, I'm going to hurt you. And if I get, as a bias, if I get more conspiracy theory type results, I'm going to get this other types of information.

**Izar Tarandach (39:38)**: But you see that that connects to my quote unquote theory, right? Because if they are training it on a corpus of knowledge where those conspiracy theories are discussed inside bodies of text. That have more of that abusive language around them, that's going to pull the needle, that's going to build a whole matrix of those weights somewhere, right? That associates this language with that bit of information. And now actually, if you are prompting using that language, that's going to bring the distance back, not the distance, that's going to bring the vector towards that and the distancing between the abusive language and the conspiracy theory is going to be much shorter than the encyclopedic version.

**Chris Romeo (40:27)**: But why not just filter this out when you're the model provider? Why not just, just have a cla— have the classifier clean up the request?

**Izar Tarandach (40:38)**: So that's, that's the big question. Anthropic has not said anything that I have seen about how they are going to do the

**Chris Romeo (40:45)**: detection,

**Izar Tarandach (40:46)**: the judgment nowadays. Yeah. How are they going to decide if you're being abusive?

**Chris Romeo (40:50)**: That's a good point. I haven't seen anything either that says how they decide it. Just, they're just stating here's the policy.

**Izar Tarandach (40:56)**: So is it the classifier? Is it the model? Because those two see things differently.

**Matt Coles (41:03)**: Right. And so it's when you give a prompt, when, when you give a prompt that can be ambiguous, the prompt itself enables the model, I think, to disambiguate. It uses the prompt as context, right? And so if you strip that out, you are losing context and it may not know what to strip out without like interpreting the context first to say, is this abusive? Strip out that language. Now, how much of the real prompt have I stripped out?

**Izar Tarandach (41:35)**: But if it doesn't strip it and it just refuses outright to work with that prompt, then it's forcing the human to rephrase the prompt in a way that it that it can use nonambiguously.

**Matt Coles (41:47)**: Is that

**Izar Tarandach (41:47)**: a

**Matt Coles (41:48)**: word? Yes. Nonambiguously. Or unambiguously.

**Izar Tarandach (41:52)**: Yeah. Yeah.

**Matt Coles (41:52)**: Yeah.

**Izar Tarandach (41:54)**: Thank you.

**Matt Coles (41:55)**: All right. Technically the non was valid probably, but it's unambiguous. Yeah.

**Chris Romeo (42:00)**: I think we've gone as far as we can for this journey. We came to some conclusions. Not really. I mean, we talked about SI versus AI, but I don't think there's, we can't make a conclusion at this point to ease our minds. Oh, we can, we can, we can.

**Izar Tarandach (42:14)**: We can, we can, we can, we can conclude that you should treat your, however you decide to call it, AI or SI thing nice.

**Chris Romeo (42:24)**: Treat it nice.

**Izar Tarandach (42:25)**: That's the conclusion.

**Matt Coles (42:25)**: Treat it nice.

**Chris Romeo (42:26)**: Don't get mad. Don't be abusive.

**Izar Tarandach (42:28)**: Because it reflects on you, not because it's doing something. It reflects on you on how you talk to your SI and your intern.

**Chris Romeo (42:36)**: I gotta be nice to my interns now? Come on. That's not in the policy. That doesn't say anything about that

**Izar Tarandach (42:42)**: until the moment, until the moment that LLMs learn how to bring coffee. You have to be nice to your interns.

**Matt Coles (42:48)**: Uh, with, with,

**Chris Romeo (42:49)**: with Anthropics news for you, pal, interns don't bring coffee anymore. They create new models. It's like interns are at this whole new level of, of capability from where they are from

**Izar Tarandach (43:01)**: home.

**Matt Coles (43:02)**: HR calls on him.

**Izar Tarandach (43:03)**: No, I do not. I work from home. I, I work from home.

**Chris Romeo (43:06)**: You should try visiting an office once a decade.

**Izar Tarandach (43:10)**: A what?

**Chris Romeo (43:10)**: I'm just totally picking on you. All right, folks, that's all the time we have today for the AI Security Table. We'll be back next week to talk about this crypto thing. I'm going to do some research and bring that to the table here because there's a lot of really smart people saying that crypto is in danger in the future with AI. So tune in next week. To get our take on that. Thanks for joining us at the AI Security Table. Subscribe, rate, review, and follow wherever you listen. New episodes every week. AI Security on the Table.